Rough Arrest Part II

Here is the police incident report:



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Arnaud and Naja Girard

51 thoughts on “Rough Arrest Part II

  1. Here is the way I view this. The cops started off on the right foot and gave Knight the easy way out by letting him leave with the warning that if he refused to leave they would and should arrested him. Up till then they acted perfect and had my full respect. As to being private property we now face several issues. For one they did not hire the KWPD to be an agent and could not unless paid. First part handled perfect, manager called KWPD and asked them to deal with it. Now lets follow the law. First it requires the manager to ask him to leave. Unless this was done we have the first issue of the required first notice of trespassing. Had the manager done this then things change as the KWPD were now ordering him to leave for the second time and that would been enough to arrest him right then and now. Lacking the first warning placed the KWPD to issue the first required warning. So far everything is still within the law and they acted properly.

    Now we hit the next stage , after warned to leave FIRST TIME and he complied this is where it falls apart. They told Knight to leave or be arrested for TRESPASSING. Perfect so far and followed the law. He then started to comply by walking away and so far all is within the the law. Now pay close attention, he was warned about trespassing not disturbing the piece. While leaving and about 30 feet away was overheard calling the cop a mother fucker. Now the problem begins. First off we have no idea if this is fact or accusation and may or may not be disturbing the piece.What we lack here is who was he disturbing? Under law the cop could not be pressing that charge so could not arrest him on that charge. What he did do was ASSAULT Knight without first telling him of the new charge. Now yes likely was disturbing a few near by people but what followed was likely a lot more disturbing than had he just adjusted his pull ups and let it pass. What was more disturbing ? The abuse we all seen or some likely drunk or drugged man venting opinion or what followed ? Yes can understand a cop being tired of verbal abuse but if unable to deal with this then picked the wrong job. As pointed out they must deal with verbal abuse as part of the job.

    The lack of body cams makes a lawyers case easy here. Will it go that far , NO not likely.So lets add this all up. What should been a 5 minute job for one cop interrupted on his doughnut break turned into a much more and tax money spent on hospital and if I understand it right 30 days in jail. Be thankful if a smart lawyer does does not go after KW for another million and if I was on jury would award the million.You tax payers are picking up the bill because your too stupid to vote assholes out of office.

    Things like this are what causes cops to be killed. No don’t take this wrong because I never want to see a cop killed. They have a tough job and often forced into making fast actions without legal knowledge or time to think it out.

    Now take a few seconds and think how easy this could have been handled. Be a big man and let the insults go unnoticed and get back to your coffee and doughnuts or turn it into an ass beating with potential costly outcome.

    Rethink what PRIVATE PROPERTY means when your running a store inviting customers. Yes likely this homeless guy is not what you want as a customer and likely would be a shoplifter. Also look at the image that a tourist seen here if they read this article.

    We all know the real truth here and this PIG was on a power trip.

  2. Well, suffice it to say that I think we’ve milked this issue to the last drop.

    If y’all feel so strongly that there is a 1st Amendment issue here, pursue it: Most of the rest of us have bigger fish to fry…or wish we did. 😉

    FWIW, incidents like this are played out thousands of times per day, across this country: Most everybody knows the score…and can recite it from rote: Be “naughty” and you’re gonna get a “spanking”.

    I can’t remember the last time that a silly incident like this was elevated to a Constitutional debate: Rather, it’s a “plain-Jane” example of an inebriated individual acting out in public. Nothing more.

    This young man’s behavior wouldn’t be tolerated anywhere. And, shouldn’t be. Period.


    1. Had it been me attacked you can dam sure bet I would hire a lawyer. Being he was not charged for disturbing the piece then this man was ASSAULTED by a cop. A good lawyer will gladly take this to court. Actually he could get the original charge reversed at the same time because he was told to leave then attacked. This man just might not be homeless when it is over. And the cop could end up with a felony. Easy to just give your rights up but some fight for them.
      Take note this is why you never plead guilty just no contest.

  3. My main point here is that while what he have her is likely a worthless criminal homeless young punk kid he still has rights. Yes the kWPD is under orders to do it’s best to run them out of town they still must follow the law while doing this. A greedy lawyer can get rich out of finding cases like this or a man seeing how stupid this town is and set KW up for an easy fast million. You are a time bomb just waiting to be had. They read this and head to KW and will set you up.

  4. Aw, Fuck. I really didn’t want to get involved in this cluster fuck, but last night I dreamt of heading to the blue paper today, and I did, under the Pritam/Oceanside article. Then, with time on my hands to kill, I decided to watch this week’s beat up the homeless man video.

    When I saw John Donnelly, who has lived on the street, seeming to dodge the police brutality side of this, I wondered why? After learning what his Vietnam U.S. Marine Corps tour of duty did to him, I wonder why he did not, as part of his spiritual awakening, conclude that war was not worth one American or Vietnamese wounded or killed in action, or turned into a NY City homeless person who even today presents awful post traumatic shock in his public writings?

    As far as I know, this battle shocked by life former practicing attorney is the only other person in this conversation who has lived on the street, and I did it right here in Key West, and am doing it right now, right here in Key West. I have done it elsewhere, too. But this article is about KWPD and KW homeless people.

    I saw the video of this last in last week’s and thought the cops were too rough. After watching the 2nd video, I think the homeless man behaved like an idiot. Maybe he was too drunk and/or hung on spice, or whatever, to be anything but an idiot. Just my peculiar opinion, he would be better off dead than continue to live in that way.

    For publishing stuff like that at my websites about homeless people like this man, I was banned for life from KOTS. No doubt, the people running KOTS , the city’s homeless shelter, will read that and say, again, that I again threatened to kill homeless people. Those people are as fucked up in the head as this homeless man was that day at the shopping center.

    It may well be the cops turned off their body cameras thinking it was over when the idiot was put into the cruiser the first time, and it never occurred to them to turn their body cameras back on.

    Good luck the blue paper ever getting an interview with Police Chief Donnie Lee.

    As for the cop with the short fuse, that’s indigenous to KWPD, I run into it plenty, and I do what John Donnelly did. I try not to get myself beaten up and jailed by cops with short fuses. I have plenty of cordial conversations with local officers, even when I think they are going at something the wrong way.

    What I do not see in any of this conversation is written authority from the shopping center manager/owner authorizing KWPD to issue trespass warnings. Without that, KWPD cannot do that.

    The homeless woman Kari Dangler was charged with trespass at Winn-Dixie shopping center, and between the Dunkin’ Donuts and Wells Fargo Bank further up N. Roosevelt, 2 different cases, and the State Attorney nolle prossed both cases because the cops had not been authorized, in writing, by the land owners/tenants to give trespass warnings or make trespass arrests.

    The Public Defender represented Kari in one of those cases, City Commissioner Sam Kaufman, pro bono, represented Kari in the other case. Two beautiful cases of justice actually prevailing for a homeless person would have gone silently into the night if I had not been reporting it at my website.

    If KWPD has the necessary written authority to issue trespass warnings at that Publix shopping center, then the Kari Dangler cases do not apply. I’m surprised the cops did not arrest the man for sleeping in public, which is illegal in Key West, unless, like me, you are banned from KOTS.

    This kind of homeless man, and there are many homeless people like him around here, and some are women, cause the rest of homeless people a lot of trouble; they cause society a lot of trouble. They incite the police, and the citizens, to dislike homeless people even more. There is no reaching such homeless people.

    Look at how hard the cops tried to reach this man, who was so chemical-zombied out, or so stupid, or so wrapped up in his own attitude and rights, maybe from reading ACLU reports or the blue paper?, that he hardy even responded to the cops at the beginning. And he was real slow thereafter.

    And, he was real stupid, or arrogant, because he well knew he was not supposed to be sleeping there, especially in broad daylight during shopping center hours. He was in society’s face. And he knew it. And he did not give a shit. He was proud of it.
    And, the cop was too rough with him. He’s probably lucky the cop didn’t taze him. Or shoot him. Maybe the rough cop’s wife asked for a divorce that morning. Maybe the rough cop just got news that his brother was killed in Afghanistan. Maybe the rough cop was told by his doctor that he has cancer.

    I suppose this homeless man has a Federal Civil Rights lawsuit, but, geeeze, what jury would sympathize with him after watching those two videos? What lawyer would file that lawsuit?

    This ain’t nothing like the Eimers case. Eimers were murdered. It was either intentional or reckless disregard of life. That was a great lawsuit, with Officer What’s His Name spouting off on his taser recorder what he they had done to Eimers, not just spouting off, bragging about it then, and later. Gary Lee Lovette, was that officer’s name. KWPD finally figured out a way to lose Lovette from the police force, with help from Lovette.

    Those Eimers case cops should be in prison now. Also, everyone in KWPD who let those cops skate. Same for Cathy Smith and her back the cops no matter what associates in the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. For aiding and abetting the cover up. LOL. Lots of luck, laugh out l loud.

    Forget the Key West Citizen’s Police Citizen’s Review Board. It has become the KWPD first defender. If you don’t know that, then you have been sound asleep. The last real CRB member, Tom Milone, told the CRB he would not seek reappointment, he will leave the CRB when his appointment expires this year.

    The only thing KWPD has to worry about now is the blue paper. And decent lawyers who are not afraid to sue KWPD. However, this homeless man in the video is not such a case. Eimers was such case.

    Naja, you speak of cops needing to control their tempers. Yes. Yet, I could never recall all the times you spontaneously went off on me over nothing, as if I was devil himself.

    When I see really big cops, all muscled up, I wonder what’s cooking, as in roasting, boiling, inside of them waiting to blow up? I wonder if they are on performance enhancing drugs? Or steroids? I wonder what would happen if KWPD gave random drug screens to every cop on the force, like Florida Keys Outreach Coalition does to every one of its in-residence clients, and one dirty pee test, and adios, regardless of time of day or night, or weather.

    I’d like to see every city employee given random pee tests. Including the mayor and city commissioners. And every school teacher. And every school official. LOL. Laugh out loud, lots of luck.

  5. Well, Jim…I’m happy to see that you concede a few points here. While I’m not so quick to condemn Mr. Knight as being a “worthless criminal homeless young punk kid”, his actions in this incident were worthy of the remedy: Not a few KWPD arrests are made exactly the same way when “fine, upstanding citizens” are the prevaricators. It’s part of the territory these “doughnut-luvin’ cops” police every day.

    Mr. Knight was officially charged with simple trespass – and resisting arrest w/o violence. Typically, the “resisting charge” is dropped…leaving only the trespass. Typically, he’ll spend 21 days total — maybe less, owing to the jail occupancy levels, unless he incurs further charges inside. Mr. Knight is a veteran of the system…he knows the score.

    Please note that Mr. Knight is not barred from bringing formal charges of his own…even while he is incarcerated. His likelihood of success, however…owing to the existence of the tapes, is slim and none.

    I smile at your contention that some “greedy lawyer” could make a fortune suing the City over such cases: If it could have been done, it would have been done…a long time ago. Nothing is as simple as it might first appear. And “greedy lawyers” are not stupid…


    1. Actually he was wrongly charged with trespass. He was warned to leave or would be charged with trespassing. Being Knight was in the process of leaving then all he had was a warning. The cop ordered him to STOP so this changes everything. At this point he was stopped from complying. Now what he could questionably been charged with is disturbing the peace for using cuss words but the law clearly says that was over reacting. In fact it was the cop that used tile cuss words that disturbed me. He is the one needing charged with the crime. So if anything the charge would be disturbing the peace and he was not given so much as a warning.

      As often in a Bubba town people agree to plead guilty to crimes they did [not] commit.

      Yes I know why many lawyers would reject the case. It costs money to sue and a homeless man has little of that. Now what he could have done was plead not guilty and then likely either win the case or it would have been dropped. With that he would then be able to take this to court and go after assault and false arrest. Yes I understand that what they would do is add a new charge and he would sit in jail a lot longer.

      Now just remember that you are setting up a perfect case for someone that has the money for bail and a lawyer working on percentage of the win.

      Has Lee so much as even talk to this cop about his illegal actions ?

      1. Chief Donie Lee confirmed yesterday that he has asked his Professional Standards division to look at it.

        1. Well that is a good start but but being he is the chief why does he not handle this himself ? And yes I do understand the cop being tired of verbal abuse. Problem is he forgot where the law starts and stops. At best Lee will suspend him a few days. That will not hurt him one dam bit because it will be days he had off anyways so no financial loss. Now if it was something like 30 days with no pay that would get his attention. My hopes is this guy finds someone to back his case and take it to court and press criminal charges of assault. That would get the attention of the rest of his force and teach them a lesson. Go after them for 1 million. No he won’t get that but might get 10 grand plus lawyer fees.

  6. This is a phony charge that will not hold just as they messed up with the dog lady.

    On another note, I am glad that all of us were able to vote Catherine Vogel out as prosecutor in the last election. I would like to believe she was booted because of the fine reporting here on The Blue Paper.

    I remember a commenter on here advocating boycotting her current law practice once we throw her out.

    Does anyone here know where she hangs her hat now ??

  7. I am amazed at how anyone can see anything but a intentional police assault on a 5’5″ 150 lbs homeless man. Of course no one wants a homeless man outside of his store. It looks bad for business, but that does not justify assault. How anyone can say that was trepassing is amazing. He was leaving the area. His past arrests or past history with the police have no bearing on this case. In the video you witness a police officer initially doing his job but quickly going overboard. The man is ordered to leave the area and complies with the request. Knight curses the officers and then is violently assaulted and charged with trespassing and disorderly conduct. So how is it possible to trespass when you comply with the officer’s instructions? And what was disorderly? Sleeping on the sidewalk or was it his foul language? Knight was initially released from custody so it must have been the language, but as you see in the video, the officer cursed the man first, and we all know that cursing an officer is not an illegal act. Furthermore the officers knew that they wanted to beat him up and did not want any video evidence, so they intentionally turned off their body cameras. That shows premeditation and intent.

  8. Knight played the game as best he could. Please guity to fake charge and be out in 21 days. Other choice was not guilty and he would win but wait in jail3 month. Yes corrupt

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